Anybody out there fly the T-41B?

[Mike Little]

I'm working on a book about the T-41 and would be interested in hearing from anyone who was involved with the aircraft, especially students and IPs. No war story is too trivial! Also looking for info on the WOFWAC program in general.

Thank you,
Mike Little

[CChambliss]

Mike,
Do a Google for Cessna Warbirds, a very interesting book. The T-41 Series T-41 A (Cessna C172 F & G) was ordered by the Army and USAF. These were off the shelf C-172 F&G Models. The T-41B was an Army aircraft, developed from the French built C-172, but powered by a 210 hp engine with a constant speed prop. (certificated in the US under the Cessna 175 Type Certification). The T-41C was ordred by the USAF, and was a T-41B but with a fixed pitch prop. The T-41D (Only 2 built) was a USAF aircraft, and was identical to the Army's T-41B. (have I confused you yet?.
As the T-41's were retired from the military service, the majority were turned over to the various military aero clubs/flying activities, or given to the Civil Air Patrol. Many of these have since migrated to the civilian market.
The USAF was last to give up their T-41C's, using them for training at the USAF Academy. When they were replaced by the Slingsby T-3A Firefly the T-41C's were given to the USAF Aero Clubs.
What kind of war stories can a Cessna 172 tell? Several thousand hours them, and there have been a few problems, a few ham fisted students, and lots of great flights and memories. (T-41A's spin great, but with 145hp engine with 3 on board and a hot Alabama Day, maybe I'll get to 4,000 feet before I reach Mississippi. The T-41C has superb climb ability, in economical to run, and those 6 cylinder Continential engines are bulletproof and oh so very smooth. But the 41C won't spin worth a damn. Falls out after only 1 turn).
There are still a large number of T-41A's and C's in the military aero club system, but since the Ft Meade Aero Club shut down, I am not aware of and B or D Models out there. I have found and am negotiating to buy an ex T-41B, and if I get it, I plan to restore it to it's original Army configuration. More on this in the next few weeks/months.

Cliff
_________________
Cliff A. Chambliss

FOR MAXIMUM ATTENTION IT'S HARD TO BEAT A GOOD BIG MISTAKE.

[Mike Little]

Hi Cliff,

Thank you very much for responding, and good luck with your airplane! There are a couple of other guys who have also restored T-41Bs out there, among them Mr. Robert Haynes. You might check out his site at http://www.warbirdflight.net/ if you haven't done so.

Actually, I'm working on this book with Mr. Robert Shiel, the author of Cessna Warbirds, which is why we're looking for new material. We have manuals and even a training film for the T-41B, but are short personal stories and information on the training program.

Concerning the aero club T-41s: we are planning to include that, and the aero club I fly with at Offutt AFB, Nebraska, has three T-41As. I've posted some photos of them at http://pages.prodigy.net/michaelriffe/aviation.html.

My email is michaelriffe@prodigy.net. Please stay in touch!

[CChambliss]

Mike,
I am with the Maxwell AFB Aero Club. Up until very recently we had 1 T-41C and 7 T-41A's. Currently most are in non-flyable storage.
T-41C N7892N Cracked Wing Spar
T-41A N4974R Cracked Wing Spar
T-41A N4977R Cracked Cylinder
T-41A N4989R Cracked Wing Spar
T-41A N4992R Cracked Wing Spar (The last T-41A acquired by the USAF)
T-41A N5203F Still Flying
T-41A N5134F Cracked Wing Spar

All these aircraft are ex academy training aircraft. 5203F has the lowest airframe time and it is in excess of 16,300 hours. Note: all these aircraft have spent their entire lives in the training environment.
In every case, the aft wing spar is cracked between behind the inboard flap track mounting plate and across the bottom two rivet holes.
We have made the decision to replace the aircraft, and are acquiring C-172P's, C-182's and a 182RG. (Also selling off our Piper ArrowIV) I don't know what will happen to these T-41's. I have told the manager when they are turned over to Air Force Services, I am interested in buying one or more "as is where is" if the price is right. The aft wing spar can be fixed, and once out of the training environment and in private hands with TLC, they still have a lot of life.
Being an IP at the home of the Air War College, there are some "war stories" but very few of the "there I was at 40,000 feet upside down" variety. Most are of the multiple very ingenious ways student pilots can think up to kill their instructors.
I have had 0-6's come by to fly and given them checkouts in the same airplane they flew as a cadet at the academy, but that carb ice, students that get lost, two engine failures, teaching crosswind landings, not the kind of tales to keep a reader sitting on the edge of the chair.
The student who spent 2 hours pre-flighting the airplane, and wrote up as discrepancies every screw head that did not have the slots aligned parallel to the neighboring screws.
Seeing an airplane on the ramp not tied down, and rocking in the wind. Get to the airplane and it's not the wind rocking it. (Note at the next Monthly Safety Briefing.. We do not, have wine & cheese parties inside the aircraft either in flight or on the ground).
and the list goes on.
Cliff
_________________
Cliff A. Chambliss

FOR MAXIMUM ATTENTION IT'S HARD TO BEAT A GOOD BIG MISTAKE.

[Mike Little]

Hi Cliff,

There aren't very many "there I wuz at 40,000 feet"-type war stories for the T-41, so the other ones are exactly what we're looking for.

We've bent a couple of our airplanes here at Offutt and the Air Force sent us examples from storage to part out and repair them. I would hope they'd be interested in selling your club's planes rather than scrapping them. If you're able to get one please share the procedure - maybe somebody here can save another (at least).

Mike

[CChambliss]

Mike,
The continuing saga of the T-41. Well after a great deal of talking this is where we are. The T-41's at Maxwell will not be returned to airworthy status. It looks like maybe 1 or 2 are going to be parted out. The others are going to be processed through the GSA, and if no taker there, will be disposed of. Current Air Force thinking is they will be demilled so they can never fly again. However, I am going to keep trying to get one of the little birds until the day they put the chainsaw to the metal.
One of the little birds N4992R has the historical claim of being the last
T-41 purchased by the Air Force. We are going to keep her, clean her up, and put her on display in front of the Flight Training Center at Maxwell AFB.
I have located an ex T-41B which is for sale fairly close to me. This is an ex Army Aircraft, which was turned over to the Forestry Service, and then found it's way into private ownership.
T-41 Tales
T-41A N4989R
Maxwell Flight Training Center/Aero Club Maxwell, AFB, Al. To fully appreciate this tale, the reader must be aware of the training doctrine at the Maxwell Flight Training Center/Aero Club.
...Every flight lesson will include at least one simulated emergency...
Our hero, a student pilot (Fred) on his first solo cross country flight from Maxwell AFN to Tuscaloosa, Alabama to Selma, Alabama, and return to Maxwell. Approximately 45 minutes into the flight, on course at approximately 4,500 feet when according to Fred the engine just quit. No warning, no cough, just silence. Fred did everything right, He had been using VFR Flight Following, and immediately notified Air Traffic Control as to what happened, He also knew where he was, quickly located Highway 82 just outside the town of Centreville, Alabama, and executed a flawless landing on the highway.
As Fred tells it, the scene quiclky took on the air of a circus. Probably the most excitement the town had seen since the Dairy Queen burned down. Local News trying to portay our hero as a savior in blue jeans who landed on the road to spare the kids in the schoolhouse (3 miles away). The local deputy who was trying to figure out if Fred should be given a ticket for hindering traffic, not using turn signals etc. Somewhere in the confusion Fred was able to call the base, and we dispatched the chief pilot, maintenance chief, and Safety Officer (me).
Arriving at the scene, we inspected the aircraft, found no damage. The engine started fine, the mechanic could find nothing wrong so the Chief Pilot flew the little bird home, and Fred rode home with the Safety Officer and maintenance chief.
Later at the meeting of the Standardization Board Fred was asked to recount his adventure. His next comment was and is a tribute to his primary flight instructor. Fred said his instructor had pulled his engine so many times in training, that on his solo flight when the engine failed, his first thought was "How did he do that?"

Student Pilots and Radio Calls...Ya gotta love em.
T-41C N7892N
Radio call Navy student pilot on her first solo:
"Cessna radio November 7892November final runway 27 Oh God, Oh God, Oh God." She soloed that day, did a very good job of it and has since moved on down the road to Pensacola and Navy Flight Training.

T-41A N4974R
A Student Pilot trying the radio. Returning home after a flight, turning base to final when a rather large bird passed under the aircraft.
"Maxwell Tower, Cessna 4974Romeo left base Oh my God We're higher than the birds"

T-41A: N4992R
Mxf Gnd: Flying with a student, had already covered a majority of the day's profile. Level flight, heading home when I casually asked:
"Santiago, do you smell smoke?"
I looked at towards the student and saw two of the biggest eyes I can recall ever seing and in a very low quivering voice
"Sir, for real or is this a test?"

Cliff Chambliss
Safety Officer
Instructor Pilot
Aviation SAfety Counselor
Maxwell AFB Flight Training Center
Maxwell AFB, Al.
_________________
Cliff A. Chambliss

FOR MAXIMUM ATTENTION IT'S HARD TO BEAT A GOOD BIG MISTAKE.